There’s a video making the rounds on Facebook right now about a husband who’s about to go on the most important date of his life…but not with his wife! SCANDALOUS!
He gets all dressed up and a friend asks if he’s nervous.
“Yes!” he says, as he ties his tie. “It’s been a long time,” replies his friend.
Then he leaves the house, turns around and rings the bell, and his very excited daughter answers, ready for their date. The girl is adorable. They go have lots of fun together doing things like drinking milk out of princess cups and swinging and going for piggyback rides.
It’s cute. Really. It is. The girl is adorable and they seem to have a good time.
I might not make many friends with what I’m about to say, but I’m banking on that whole “if you say it, they will come” thing that happens when we say things that we know will probably enrage people but might also show us we’re not alone.
Dads, don’t date your daughters.
And this goes for moms, too, though there’s an odd disparity between the number of events aimed at mothers and sons versus those aimed at dads and daughters, and those aimed at mothers and sons are very rarely called “date nights.”
(There’s a whole commentary on why these daddy-daughter date night events exist to get dads to spend time with their daughters/sons and why they shouldn’t have to exist at all because it should just be a thing parents do, but that’s probably another inflammatory blog post for another day.)
It might be a special occasion or a treat when moms and dads take their children to the playground, or out for ice cream, or to the movies, but it’s not dating.
Why is there this thing where we talk about our relationships with our children in terms of our relationships with spouses and friends? Our relationships with our children are neither.
Dating implies there’s a romantic element to the relationship and, quite frankly, it’s weird to talk about dating our children. Go back to the example from that video where the dad talks about being nervous and it’s “been a long time” and tell me that’s anything other than awkward and weird, even if it was scripted.
But Miranda, you say, it’s just a word! You’re giving it meaning where there isn’t any!
No, I’m really not.
The common use of the verb “date” means courting, pursuing a relationship with someone you’re romantically or potentially sexually interested in. Think about that for a minute and let’s stop dating our children.
We can do better. We can choose different words and not frame our relationships with our children in romantic terms.
And while I’m probably offending people, all of the memes declaring ourselves the “first loves” of our opposite sex children are weird too.
Didn’t you read Oedipus Rex?
Am I the first person in my children’s lives who will love them? Who will show them what love is? Yes, probably, but the term “first love” implies schoolyard crushes and high school romance and Mommy and Daddy issues they’ll need to work out in therapy some day.
It also sort of sounds like we can’t let them grow up and experience the world on their own without us, and while that thought sort of rips my heart out, it has to happen.
I don’t want to be my son’s first love. Not like that. And I don’t want my husband to date our daughter.
Spending quality time with your kids isn’t dating. It’s just…spending quality time with your kids. It’s parenting. It’s the stuff we should be doing every day, even if it’s just reading together at night before bed, or sitting around the dinner table engaged in conversation instead of staring at our devices.
Instead of dating your daughter (or son), date your partner.
That’s probably better for your relationships in the long run anyway.
If you want to teach your daughter what to expect from the men she’ll one day find herself dating and possibly marrying, show her (and your sons) a strong relationship. Show her what a solid partnership looks like.
Show her what respect looks like by respecting her mother or the mother figures in her life and she’ll learn to respect herself and demand that from others.
Show her what love looks like by loving her, certainly.
But don’t date your daughter.
First of all, let me just say thank you for reading, even if you disagree with me and can’t wait to blast me in the comments (though I do hope that reading this update might help explain, at least in part, where I was coming from when I wrote this). I appreciate your being here and the conversation that has been sparked as a result of this piece.
I am not now nor have I ever been a crazy man-hating spinster lesbian bitch (or a wanker, I think) but I am sometimes crazy and sometimes bitchy. Occasionally the two overlap. (I’m even medicated! With a therapist!)
Prior to writing this post, it hadn’t occurred to me that others see and hear the verb date in terms of its less romantic definition, i.e. a social engagement. (The noun date means “a set place in time” or we’re talking about a fruit. Or maybe we have a Date Date and then things get really confusing.)
Yes, I was aware that the definition of date as a social engagement existed, but the connotation of the word date, to me, is a romantic engagement between to people who are dating, and I hadn’t realized just how infrequently I personally use the word “date” until the comments and discussions started rolling in.
I don’t say “I have a lunch date with my friend.” I say “I’m going to lunch with so-and-so.” That is not to say that others shouldn’t say that because I don’t say that, or that any of us is right or wrong because we do or don’t say date. It’s just…different.
But the word “date” wasn’t so much the thing that bothered me about the original video and which word to use wasn’t the point I was trying to make. Somewhere along the way, things got confused, so I’d like to take a second to try to clear up what my message was supposed to be.
I want parents to spend time one on one with their children, of both the same and opposite sex. It’s good. It’s healthy. Spending time with our children is vital to their development and our relationships with them.
Here, where I live, there are no “mother-son date nights.” You will never see a restaurant or event facility advertise a “father-son date night” because ::gasp:: they’re both dudes! ZOMG! And the same is true of mother-daughter events, with the exception of teas around Mother’s Day, but then I ask, what happens to the moms who don’t have daughters? Are they uninvited?
There are only events geared toward dads and daughters. There are only viral videos about dads and daughters. There is only anything about dads and daughters happening in this conversation.
So, yes, I do think that there are lines that get blurred when it comes to the notion of “dating” our daughters, and some of that, I now realize, comes from the places I’ve lived and the culture in which I was raised.
That is, the “purity culture.”
I’m a liberal Feminist thinker living in a veritable sea of people who see the world so differently than I do it’s a wonder we’re even looking at the same world sometimes.
In a place where “earn the right to wear white” is a mantra taught in sex ed classes and where daughters are encouraged to pledge their virginity to their parents, namely their fathers, complete with the exchanging of rings, and where there are no such pushes for young men to do the same (nor do young men seem to need the same protection from the big, bad world of dating), the idea that dads should date their daughters so that the fathers can be the great protectors, standing guard with a shotgun while their little girls exit the house with a gentleman caller isn’t one that I can support.
And I don’t necessarily subscribe to the notion that young girls learn about their self-worth and have their self-esteem built up solely by their relationships with their fathers, or that one on one time with their fathers are the only ways they’ll open up when they need to talk about the big things in their lives.
I think a lot of that openness comes from the culture which is created within the home on a daily basis. Engaging each other in questions about the day, talking, sharing, and being kind to and not judgmental with one another.
Daughters (and sons) will learn what to expect from the men/women in their lives by how they see us treat the people around you, which includes them, our spouses or partners, our neighbors, and the waiters at your favorite restaurant. They will come to understand and see the qualities they want in a partner not from what we do on those special outings with them, but from how we live our lives every day.
Be the kind of spouse or partner to your wife that you hope your daughter will one day marry. Treat your wife how you want your daughter to be treated. She will see that. She is seeing that.
So sure, bring your daughter flowers, but bring them for your wife, too. (Chances are, if you’re the kind of guy who’s bringing his daughter flowers, you’re already doing those things for your wife. Good on you!)
Finally, the comments which have hurt me most in this entire thing are those about my dad and what kind of man he must have been.
Call me names. Make fun of me. Imagine me to be some perverted, twisted monster. I don’t care.
But my dad was a good man. He didn’t take me on “dates,” and quite frankly the thought that he should do those things would never have crossed his mind. My upbringing predates the Internet and blogs telling us how we should and shouldn’t be doing it.
But he didn’t have to do those things for me to know he cared.
My dad died last August, suddenly, and without a chance for me to say goodbye, or to tell him that I appreciated the sacrifices he made for me. Or just to tell him thanks for loving me. I will never, ever get that chance again, and can only hope to do his legacy justice by living with the same kindness and generosity he showed for everyone he met.
Strive to do the best
Thursday 24th of March 2022
Freud's theories are just that a theory. As defined in psychology, a theory is a hypothesis that is backed by evidence. However, Freud had limited evidentiary backing and generally a limited understanding of psychology outside of the traditional Mother, Father, Daughter, Son dynamic. In my opinion, the role of any parent is not black and white. I understand the nervousness of the father. We all should strive to provide the best examples of what the world has to offer and the best examples of how to respond to our children. The parent demonstrating what a first date should look like, is cause for nervousness and should not be broadly identified as a demonstration of emotional incestuous behavior.
Tuesday 30th of January 2018
"daughters are encouraged to pledge their virginity to their parents, namely their fathers, complete with the exchanging of ring"
I just threw up in my mouth.
Tuesday 30th of January 2018
Yes. This. I just saw the video you are talking about for the first time and it totally creeped me out.
I always enjoyed my daughter's Girl Scout troop's father-daughter dance when we went to them kindergarten through third grade, and missed it last year when the planning fell through or something, but probably fourth grade was a good time to stop doing it anymore. I liked the venue it was always at, the different themes each year were fun, it was fun going out to a restaurant with the other fathers and their daughters beforehand, and cutting up with her on the dance floor was always fun. But we weren't slowdancing, and it never occurred to me to call it a "date". I have friends from college who post their monthly scheduled "daddy-daughter date" where they go out to a restaurant and whatnot, and it seems very unspontaneous, not to mention creepy. First, I don't want to schedule some special night that is supposedly our special time together, as if to say either I won't really be that involved with her the rest of the time, or the rest of the time isn't that "special". I want to be present in her life, a part of it, as much as possible while she wants me in it, because middle school is less than 7 months away, and she's going to get more and more independent, want to be with her friends more and more, and then with a (gulp) boyfriend. So I savor our talks in the car as I drive her to school every morning. Or cooking together, or out in our little sailboat together. Or when she unselfconsciously leans against me on the couch while we're watching a movie together. Or I'll surprise her by bringing a favorite lunch to her school on Fridays (I know she won't want me eating with her in middle school). It's just "spending time together".
Being a good man to your daughter, preparing her to make good choices in the young men she dates and ultimately marry, is all about setting an example by treating her mother respectfully, as the equal she is, about being engaged with her and listening to her and her mother's feelings, about not being afraid to express my feelings to them, every day, in every little way. Getting her excited about that "one special time a month" when I'm all hers, I'd be afraid it might set up unhealthy expectations that as long as a guy makes a big deal about a woman occasionally, how he treats her, whether he takes her for granted or not the other 29 nights of the month, doesn't matter.
We should have boundaries around the term "date", around the trappings of a romantic date, that it should be reserved for actual romantic dates. Even the term "playdate", while fine when kids are really little and the parents are choosing who they will play with, arranging the time and place, and using it as much a chance to talk to another adult as your kids to play together, this term should fall by the wayside once kids start picking their own friends and asking "mom, can I invite so-and-so over." It seems organically "playdate" became "playover" sometime early in elementary school.
Sunday 15th of October 2017
I appreciate this article, and, yes, there are some families that call special times with a family member a "date", which does have a fun ring to it. Yet, this article is raising some awareness to a misplacement of priorities, if you will, of the sacred family roles. While husband/wife relationship is starting to play a subservient role to the whole parent/child bond, we, quite frankly, are missing the point. Children NEED the stability of watching their parents date, and need to SEE the difference in the roles. This is what the author is trying to portray as healthy.
Saturday 25th of March 2017
So because you don't use the term "lunch date with my friends" no one should... Hmm... You really need to get over yourself or get an adjustment on your meds. I am so sick of people like you that take something so innocent as a daddy/daughter date ( which mind you is NOT a romantic thing but a shortened playdate.) And twist it to mean something sinister. If you can easily take concepts and turn it sexual that says more about you than the daddies that pick up their daughters for dinner and piggybacks. Also, it is the daddy's job to show a girl how she is to be treated by her future significant other. And another point " if he brings her flowers, bring some to her mom, too". No. Just, no. What is so wrong with dad's making their little girl's feel special? If you're jealous of your daughter, seek help and don't cut and paste your perverted issues on everyone else.